| 双语新闻 Bilingual News | 双语对照阅读 分级系列阅读 智能辅助阅读 在线英语学习 |
|
| 双语新闻 Bilingual News | 双语对照阅读 分级系列阅读 智能辅助阅读 在线英语学习 |
| [英文] [中文] [双语对照] [双语交替] [] |
| Ryuichi Sakamoto is in Tokyo for the summertime rainy season. A New York resident for over 30 years, the Oscar-winning composer has been in Japan since last November — not because of the pandemic, but because of a diagnosis of rectal cancer, discovered just after he went into remission after several years of treatment for throat cancer. |
| 坂本龙一正在东京度过夏日雨季。这位奥斯卡获奖作曲家在纽约居住了30多年，自去年11月以来一直在日本——不是因为疫情，而是因为他在接受数年喉癌治疗，病情好转不久后，又被诊断出患有直肠癌。 |
| Despite his health problems, Sakamoto has been as prolific as ever, participating in concerts, exhibitions and most recently an opera, “Time,” which premiered last month at the Holland Festival. |
| 尽管存在健康问题，坂本还是一如既往地多产，他参加音乐会和展览，以及最近创作了歌剧《时间》(Time)，该剧上个月在荷兰艺术节上首演。 |
| “Time” is part of Sakamoto’s ongoing exploration of “asynchronism,” music arranged outside traditional time structures. Introduced on his 2017 album “async,” the concept was conceived as he recovered from his first bout with cancer — an experience that he has said newly honed his ear to the beauty of everyday sounds, both natural and man-made, sun showers and singing bowls. |
| 《时间》是坂本不断探索的“异步性”音乐的一部分，也就是不按传统时间结构编配的音乐。他在2017年的专辑《异步》(async)中提出了这个概念，这是在他第一次患癌症后的康复过程中构思的——他说，这次经历重新磨炼了他的耳朵，去聆听日常声音的美感，无论是自然的还是人工的，无论是日光浴还是颂钵。 |
| Without conductor or tempo markings, “Time” is a “Mugen Noh,” a subset of Noh theater based on dreams. Created in collaboration with the visual artist Shiro Takatani, this dreamscape unfolds on a stage filled with water and a screen displaying weather systems, cities and empty space. |
| 《时间》没有指挥或节奏标记，是一部“梦幻能剧”(Mugen Noh)，也就是一种基于梦境的能剧。舞台上的梦幻场景是与视觉艺术家高谷史郎(Shiro Takatani)合作创作的，在一个铺满水的舞台上展开，还有一块屏幕，显示着天气系统、城市和空旷的空间。 |
| Crossing and recrossing the stage with her sho, an ancient Japanese wind instrument, Mayumi Miyata represents nature. The dancer and actor Min Tanaka is a frail symbol of humankind, struggling to build a road across the water. Summoning visions of rising sea levels, “Time” — like our new century — presents a premonition that also feels like a memory: At the end of time, we all return to the same sea. |
| 宫田麻由美(Mayumi Miyata)带着笙（一种古老的日本管乐器）在舞台上来回穿梭，代表着自然。舞蹈家兼演员田中泯(Min Tanaka)则是人类脆弱的象征，他努力修建一条横跨水面的道路。“时间”——正如我们的新世纪——呈现出一种预感，感觉也像一种记忆：在时间的尽头，我们都将回到同一片大海。 |
| Sakamoto spoke about the piece on a recent video call. These are edited excerpts from the conversation. |
| 坂本在最近的一次视频通话中谈到了这部作品。以下是经过编辑的谈话节选。 |
| At what point in the production of “Time” did you find out your cancer had returned? |
| 在《时间》的制作过程中，你是什么时候发现癌症复发了？ |
| I worked on “Time” for four years after “async,” and I was diagnosed with rectal cancer last year. It’s a long treatment. I’m in the middle right now, and will go back to the hospital for surgery in the fall. It’s been a year since I left New York; I don’t know when I can come back. |
| 在《异步》之后，我在《时间》上花费了四年，去年我被诊出患有直肠癌。这是一个漫长的治疗过程。我现在正处于中间阶段，秋天就会回医院做手术。我离开纽约已经一年了；我不知道什么时候能回来。 |
| Were you originally planning to perform in the opera? |
| 你原本打算在这部歌剧中演出吗? |
| I was thinking of making an original instrument for it. I still have this idea for the future. |
| 我想过为它做一个原创的乐器。我打算把这个想法留给将来。 |
| I was using the word opera in the beginning, but I’ve stopped using it. It’s a combination of installation and performance — a theater piece. |
| 一开始我用的是歌剧这个词，但现在我不再这么说了。它是一种装置和表演的结合——一个戏剧作品。 |
| It seems quite deeply connected to “async.” |
| 这似乎和《异步》有很深的联系。 |
| The conceptual idea behind “async” was my doubt about synchronization, and that led me to think about time itself. If you know my work from the past, I zigzag. But the things I got from making “async” were so huge that I didn’t want to lose them. I really wanted to develop them. The album was so spatial, like music for an installation, so the development would be an installation of performers together. That was the original idea for “Time.” |
| 《异步》背后的概念是我对同步的怀疑，这让我想到了时间本身。如果你知道我过去的作品，就会发现我前进的过程是迂回的。但我从《异步》中得到的东西实在太大，我不想失去它们。我真的很想发展它们。那张专辑非常空间化，就像为装置创作的音乐，所以把它发展下去，就是一种有表演者参与的装置。这就是《时间》的初衷。 |
| “Time” is a Mugen Noh — it has no tempo — so it does seem like the perfect landscape to explore these ideas. |
| 《时间》是一部“梦幻能剧”——它没有节奏——所以似乎确实是探索这些想法的完美景观。 |
| Time is so natural to our society that we don’t doubt it. But because I’m a musician, I deal with time all the time. When we compose, we have to think about how to manipulate sounds in time. |
| 时间对我们的社会来说太自然了，我们并不怀疑它。但因为我是一个音乐家，我一直在和时间打交道。当我们作曲时，我们必须考虑如何在时间当中处理声音。 |
| There are no instruments onstage, except the sho. |
| 除了笙，舞台上没有任何乐器。 |
| Only the sho, which I have been fascinated by since I was a university student. I disliked all other Japanese traditional music, and even other traditions, like kado [flower arrangement] or sado [tea ceremony]. I hated it all, except gagaku [court music], which is like aliens’ music to me. |
| 只有笙，在我还是个大学生的时候就对它非常着迷了。我不喜欢其他日本传统音乐，甚至包括花道(kado)或茶道(sado)这些传统。除了雅乐(gagaku)之外的一切我都很讨厌，它在我听来就像是外星人音乐。 |
| Miyata, who represents nature, crosses the water so easily, while Tanaka — “mankind” — is so feeble. |
| 宫田代表了自然，轻而易举就能穿过水面，而田中——即“人类”——却如此弱小。 |
| Woman and sho, they represent nature. Tanaka wants to create a straight road in the water — in time — to get the other side, but he fails. He goes insane and dies in the water at the end. |
| 女人和笙，她们代表了自然。田中想在水中创造一条笔直的路——及时——到达彼岸，但他失败了。他发了疯，最终死在了水里。 |
| What is humanity trying to reach at the end of the road? |
| 人想在路的尽头求得什么？ |
| That’s mankind’s nature. A bit like Sisyphus: just a natural passion to make a road, to conquer nature. |
| 这是人的天性。有点像西西弗斯(Sisyphus)：就是一种天生的开辟道路、征服自然的激情。 |
| The road-building scenes interrupt a series of stories: a dream from the work of the writer Natsume Soseki; a traditional Noh play; the butterfly dream from the text Zhuangzi. How did you choose these? |
| 开路的场景插入了一系列故事：作家夏目漱石作品里的梦，传统能剧，《庄子》中的蝴蝶梦。你是如何选出这些故事的？ |
| In our dreams, all properties of time are destroyed. In the Noh story “Kantan,” a man is looking for enlightenment and takes a nap. It just takes five minutes, but in his dream, 50 years has passed. Which is reality? The five minutes or the 50 years? And then in the butterfly dream, we have the philosopher Zhuang Zhou. Does the butterfly dream he is Zhuang Zhou, or does Zhuang Zhou dream he is a butterfly? We cannot tell. |
| 在梦境里，时间的所有属性都被摧毁了。在能剧故事《邯郸》(Kantan)里，一个正在寻找觉悟的男人打了个盹。他只睡了五分钟，但在他的梦里过了50年。哪边才是现实？五分钟还是50年？然后在蝴蝶梦里，我们见到了哲学家庄周。是蝴蝶梦见自己是庄周，还是庄周梦见自己是蝴蝶？我们分辨不清。 |
| By freeing time musically, do you feel it slow down? |
| 通过在音乐上解放了时间，你是否感觉到它慢了下来？ |
| The theme of “Time” is to insist that time doesn’t exist, not that it’s passing slowly. Watching the streaming premiere, I sensed that one hour ago was just a minute ago, or some moments were repeated. At least I could feel another kind of time. |
| 《时间》的主题是坚持时间并不存在，而不是缓缓流逝。在观看流媒体首映时，我感觉一小时好像只有一分钟，或是一些片刻出现了反复。至少我能感受到另一种尺度上的时间。 |
| You’ve also been painting on ceramic pieces (“2020S”), using found objects, and making installations (“Is Your Time”), and you currently have a large retrospective in Beijing, with a lot of visual work. What provoked this turn toward the visual arts? |
| 你也曾在陶瓷片上作画（《2020S》），利用遗失物品，制作装置作品（《你的时间》[Is Your Time]），目前你还在北京办了一场大型回顾展，包含了很多视觉作品。是什么促使你转向了视觉艺术？ |
| Maybe the big moment was the opera I composed in 1999, “Life.” It included visual images, moving images and some texts — all those visual elements were the main characters of that opera. |
| 也许转折时刻是我在1999年创作的歌剧《生命》(Life)。它包括了视觉图像、动态影像和一些文本——这些视觉元素是那部歌剧的主角。 |
| And that was your first collaboration with Takatani? |
| 那是你第一次与高谷合作？ |
| Yes, and the next thing we did was to deconstruct “Life.” We deconstructed all the visual images, and the sound, too, to create an installation in 2007. That was a big moment. |
| 是的，而那之后我们所做的就是解构《生命》。我们解构了所有的视觉影像以及声音，在2007年创造了一个装置作品。那是一个重要时刻。 |
| I guess you’ve always worked in the visual arts — you’ve worked so closely with filmmakers on soundtracks. |
| 我想你一直都在参与视觉艺术——你和电影制作人在配乐上有过非常密切的合作。 |
| Strange, you know, I didn’t think about films. Films are more narrative, more linear. Unfortunately, a linear structure is in time; it has a beginning, middle and end. I don’t want to go back to that. This is why I’m fascinated by installation. Installation doesn’t have to have a beginning or end. The best installation, I think, is just listening to rain. |
| 奇怪的是，我并没想过电影的形式。电影更具叙事性和线性。不幸的是，线性结构存在于时间之中；它有开头、中间和结尾。我不想再回到这种形式。这就是为什么我对装置艺术如此着迷。装置不需要开始或结束。我认为最好的装置就是聆听雨声。 |
| And you have a tremendous rainstorm at the end of “Time,” followed by the crashing of a wave in slow motion. What sea were you thinking of? |
| 在《时间》的结尾有一场大暴雨，接着是海浪撞击的慢镜头。你在想的是什么海？ |
| Man wants to conquer nature — the water — but he must fail, so he must die by water. I needed a huge flood, maybe a tsunami, to represent the violent power of water. Also, almost all ethnic groups have some memories of a big flood. Maybe we all have some deep memory about surviving a flood. |
| 人想征服自然——亦即是水——但他必须失败，所以他必须死于水。我需要一场巨大的洪水，也许是海啸，来代表水的猛烈力量。而且，几乎所有民族都对大洪水留有一些记忆。也许我们都有一些在洪水中幸存的深刻记忆。 |
| I think a lot of people will wonder if this opera is primarily about climate change. |
| 我想很多人会好奇，这部歌剧的主题是否与气候变化相关。 |
| Climate change is the most vivid conflict between mankind and nature so of course it is included. But it’s not the main focus. I wanted to create a myth about mankind and nature. |
| 气候变化是人与自然之间最鲜明的冲突，所以它当然也包括在内。但它不是重点。我想要创造一则关于人与自然的神话。 |
| It’s very similar to Soseki’s dream, in which a woman returns as a flower growing from her own grave. I’ve read a few interpretations. To some it represents Soseki’s struggle with the modern world. |
| 这与夏目漱石的梦非常相似，在他的梦里，一个女人变成了一朵从自己的坟墓上开出的花。我读过一些阐释。有些人认为，它代表了夏目漱石在现代世界的挣扎。 |
| It is my belief about reincarnation. Because she promises she will be back in 100 years, and she’s back as a flower. You know, I always wanted to be buried in the ground, so that my body would become the nutrition of other living things. And in Soseki’s story, the woman becomes a flower. It’s so beautiful. |
| 这是我对轮回的信仰。因为她承诺会在100年后回来，就作为一朵花回来了。你知道，我一直想被埋在地下，这样我的身体就可以成为其他生物的营养。而在夏目漱石的故事中，女人变成了花。真的很美。 |
| I love your interpretation. |
| 我喜欢你的解读。 |
| Very romantic, no? |
| 很浪漫，不是吗？ |
OK阅读网 版权所有(C)2017 | 联系我们