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| A team of experts selected by the World Health Organization to investigate the origins of the virus that caused the Covid-19 pandemic returned last week from Wuhan, site of the world’s first outbreak. The team, having broken the ice with Chinese scientists, plans to produce a joint report on the possible origins of the virus. | 上周，由世界卫生组织(World Health Organization)挑选的调查Covid-19大流行病毒源头的专家组从全球第一次疫情暴发地武汉返回。在与中国科学家达成共识后，该小组计划就该病毒的可能来源发表一份联合报告。 |
| The two groups of scientists, from China and the W.H.O., agreed to pursue some ideas that the Chinese government has been promoting, like the possibility that the virus was transported on frozen food. But the W.H.O. team also became frustrated by China’s refusal to turn over raw data for analysis. | 来自中国和世卫组织的两组科学家同意研究中国政府一直在推动的一些想法，比如病毒可能是通过冷冻食品传播的。但世卫组织的团队也对中国拒绝提供原始数据进行分析感到失望。 |
| Peter Daszak, a member of the W.H.O. team and the president of EcoHealth Alliance in New York, is primarily concerned with the animal origins of the virus. A specialist in animal diseases and their spread to humans, Dr. Daszak has worked with the Wuhan Virology Institute, a collaboration that last year prompted the Trump administration to cancel a grant to his organization. | 世卫组织团队成员、纽约生态健康联盟(EcoHealth Alliance)主席彼得·达扎克(Peter Daszak)主要关心的是病毒的动物来源。达扎克是研究动物疾病及其向人类传播的专家，曾与武汉病毒研究所合作——这促使去年特朗普政府取消了拨给达扎克的机构的一笔经费。 |
| In an interview after his return to New York, he said that the visit had provided some new clues, which all of the scientists, Chinese and international, agreed most likely pointed to an animal origin within China or Southeast Asia. The scientists have largely discounted claims that the virus originated in a lab, saying that possibility was so unlikely that it was not worth further investigation. | 他在返回纽约后接受采访时说，这次访问提供了一些新的线索，所有中国和国际科学家都认为，这些线索很可能指向中国或东南亚的动物起源。科学家们大多对病毒起源于实验室的说法不以为然，他们说这种可能性很小，不值得进一步研究。 |
| He reflected on the atmosphere in Wuhan and his first glimpse of the seafood market where the initial outbreak occurred last year, although it was not the site of the first cases. He also said the path ahead would be straightforward scientifically, but not politically. | 他回忆了武汉的氛围，以及他第一次看到的华南海鲜市场，那里是去年首次暴发疫情的地方，但不是第一例病例的发生地。他还说，前方的道路在科学上是直接明了的，但在政治上不是。 |
| A transcript of the conversation, condensed and edited for length, follows: | 以下是经过精简和编辑的谈话记录： |
| You’ve been to China and to Wuhan many times before. How was this different? | 你以前去过中国和武汉很多次，这次访问有什么不同吗？ |
| Well, this was weird. There’s certain things when you go into China that you’re supposed to do. The first thing you do is have a meeting and then have a meal. And if you don’t have a meal, it’s considered extremely rude. This time we spent two weeks in Zoom calls from our quarantine hotel. Then we went to meet in person and still didn’t have meals with our host. We had meals in a separate room. | 好吧，这次很奇怪。当你去中国时，有些事情是肯定要做的。你要做的第一件事是开会，然后和他们吃饭。如果你不吃，会被认为是非常粗鲁的。这次我们花了两周时间在隔离酒店用Zoom开会，然后才和他们见面。但见面后仍然没有和东道主一起吃饭，我们在一个单独的房间里吃。 |
| So it was just a very difficult, very intense, very emotional trip. In Wuhan, there’s this feeling of post-traumatic shock. | 所以这是一次非常艰难、非常紧张、非常情绪化的旅行。在武汉，人们有一种创伤后休克的感觉。 |
| The city went on lockdown, I think, 76 days. They were locked in their apartments — people died, and they didn’t know about it. And from then on, they’ve been accused of starting a pandemic, and it’s been called the Wuhan virus, the China virus, and there was just a sense of outrage and sadness. | 这座城市被封锁了76天。人们被锁在自己的公寓里，有的人死后都没人知道。从那时起，他们被指造成了一场大流行，这个病毒被称为武汉病毒、中国病毒，人们感到愤怒和悲伤。 |
| Did that make it difficult in terms of the scientific purpose of the trip? | 这是否给这次旅行的科学目的带来了困难？ |
| No. You’ve got a task to do. You’ve volunteered. You know what it’s going to be like. You get caught up in the historical importance. I don’t know if we were the first foreigners to walk around the Huanan seafood market, which is blocked off even to Chinese citizens. The only people that have been in there have been the Chinese disease investigators. We met with the doctors that treated the first known Covid patients. | 不。你是带着任务的。你是自愿来的，也知道会是什么感觉。你被这件事的历史重要性所吸引。我不知道我们是不是第一批来到华南海鲜市场的外国人，这个市场甚至对中国公民都是封闭的。去过那里的只有中国的疾病调查员。我们会见了治疗第一批已知新冠肺炎患者的医生。 |
| These people have been through harrowing conditions, and they’re now lauded as heroes in China, and then the rest of the world now is fighting that war. And China, of course, is absolutely petrified of this virus catching hold again. | 这些人经历了痛苦，现在他们在中国被誉为英雄，而现在轮到世界其他地方在打这场仗。当然，中国对这种病毒的再次流行感到无比震惊。 |
| When you arrive at the airport, they come on the plane in full P.P.E.; you’re escorted down a separate quarantine pathway; you get tested. You’re driven to the hotel, you go in your room, and you’re locked in for two weeks. It’s just severe. The people who come to your door are in full P.P.E. The waste from your trash, from the hotel room, goes into a yellow bag with a biohazard sign on it. | 当你到达机场的时候，穿着全套防护服的人会到飞机上来；你被带到另一条隔离通道，再做核酸检测。你被送到酒店，回到自己的房间，然后被锁在里面两周。真的很严苛。来到你门前的人都是穿着全套防护服的。你的垃圾和酒店房间里的垃圾会被放进一个黄色袋子里，袋子上有生物危害标志。 |
| It was a totally different experience when I returned home, where I didn’t even get a notification that I’ve got to quarantine. I signed on to the New York state app, but no one is going to knock on my door and tell me, “Stay indoors.” | 当我回到家时，那是一种完全不同的体验，在那里我甚至没有收到要我隔离的通知。我注册了纽约州的应用程序，但没有人会来敲我的门，告诉我“待在室内”。 |
| Did you learn anything from this trip that you didn’t know before? | 在这次旅行中，你有了解到什么以前不知道的东西吗？ |
| From Day 1, the data we were seeing were new that had never been seen outside China. Who were the vendors in the Huanan seafood market? Where did they get their supply chains? And what were the contacts of the first cases? How real were the first cases? What other clusters were there? | 从第一天开始，我们就看到了中国以外的人从未见过的新数据。哪些人是华南海鲜市场的商贩？他们的供应链从哪里来？第一批病例的接触者有哪些？最初病例的真实程度有多少？那里还有什么别的聚集性疫情？ |
| When you asked for more, the Chinese scientists would go off, and a couple of days later, they’ve done the analysis, and we’ve got new information. It was extremely useful. At the time, you couldn’t really say much. We were trying to not undermine the process by revealing anything while we were on the trip. | 当你要求更多数据的时候，中国科学家会开始工作，几天后就做完分析，让我们得到新的信息。这些信息非常有用。在那个时候，你真的不能说太多。我们在此行结束前尽量不透露任何信息，以免破坏整个过程。 |
| What can you say now about the market and what you saw? | 关于市场和你所看到的东西，你现在可以透露什么？ |
| The market closed on the 31st of December or the 1st of January, and China C.D.C. sent a team in of scientists to try and find out what was going on. It was a very extensive study, swabbing every surface of this place. We knew early on that there were 500 samples collected, and there were many positives, and in that sampling were some animal carcasses, or meat. But there was not really much information publicly about what had been done. So we got all that information. And that, to me, was a real eye-opener. | 市场在12月31日或1月1日关闭，中国疾控中心派了一队科学家去调查到底发生了什么。那是非常全面的研究，对那里的每一处表面都进行了拭样。我们很早就知道一共有500个样本被收集，许多结果呈阳性，这些样本中有一些动物尸体或肉类。但并没有多少公开信息说明他们做了什么。于是，我们得到了所有这些信息。对我来说，那真是大开眼界。 |
| They’d actually done over 900 swabs in the end, a huge amount of work. They had been through the sewage system. They’d been into the air ventilation shaft to look for bats. They’d caught animals around the market. They’d caught cats, stray cats, rats, they even caught one weasel. They’d sampled snakes. People had live snakes at the market, live turtles, live frogs. | 他们最终进行了900多次拭样，工作量非常巨大。他们查过了污水处理系统。他们到通风井里寻找蝙蝠。他们在市场附近抓了很多动物。他们抓了猫、流浪猫、老鼠，他们甚至还抓了一只黄鼠狼。他们对蛇进行了采样。市场里有人贩卖活蛇、乌龟和青蛙。 |
| Rabbits were there, rabbit carcasses. A farm with rabbits could have been really critical. There was talk about badgers, and in China, when they say badger, that means ferret badger. It’s a mustelid, related to weasels. Animals were coming into that market that could have carried the coronavirus. They could have been infected by bats somewhere else in China and brought it in. So that’s clue No. 1. | 那里还有兔子，兔子的尸体。养兔子的农场可能很关键。有人提到了獾，在中国，一般人说到的獾指的就是鼬獾。那是鼬科动物，与黄鼠狼有亲缘关系。进入该市场的动物可能携带了新冠病毒。它们可能是被中国其他地方的蝙蝠感染，然后把病毒带到了这里。这是第一条线索。 |
| There were 10 stalls that sold wildlife. There were vendors from South China, including Yunnan Province, Guangxi Province and Guangdong Province. Yunnan Province is where the closest relative to SARS-CoV-2 is found in bats. Guangxi and Guangdong are where the pangolins were captured. They had close viruses. | 出售野生动物的摊位有10个。有的商贩来自华南地区，包括云南省、广西省和广东省。云南省的蝙蝠体内发现了与SARS-CoV-2最相近的病毒。广西和广东是捕获穿山甲的地方。它们也有相近的病毒。 |
| You’ve got animals coming in to the market which are susceptible. Some of these are coming from places where we know the nearest relatives of the virus are found. So there’s the real red flag. | 有些进入市场的动物很容易被感染。其中一些来自我们所知的发现病毒最近亲的地方。所以这才是真正的危险信号。 |
| Now the Chinese group did swab those animals, and they were all negative, but it’s just one small group of animals in the freezer that were left behind. We don’t know what else was for sale there. So these two clues are really important. | 现在中国的专家组对这些动物进行了拭样，结果都是阴性的，但这只是冷冻库里剩下的一小群动物。我们不知道市场上还卖什么。这两条线索都非常重要。 |
| When we got to actually visit the market, to me it was quite striking. The pictures you see of that market closed now are of quite orderly buildings with shutters, and you think, This a very efficient, typical city market. It doesn’t really look like a live animal market. Once you get there on the ground, it’s different. It’s pretty ramshackle. | 当我们真的到了市场，在我看来场面是相当震撼的。现在从照片上看到的关闭的市场，都是井然有序的带有百叶窗的建筑，你会觉得这是个效率很高的典型城市市场。它看起来真不像个活体动物市场。一旦你到了现场，看到的东西就不同了。这里的构造相当混乱松散。 |
| It looks like a place that would sell live animals. There’s plenty of evidence of live aquatic animals, the turtle tanks, the fish tanks, the snakes, which we know were available. What we now have are a clear link and a potential pathway. | 这里看起来就像个贩卖活体动物的地方。有大量证据表明活体水生动物、海龟缸、鱼缸、蛇的存在，我们知道在这里有售。我们现在得到了一个清晰的联系和一个可能的感染途径。 |
| What about the cases that appeared before the outbreak in the seafood market? | 那在海鲜市场暴发疫情前的病例呢？ |
| There was other spread going on outside of Huanan market. There are other patients who have no links to the market, quite a few in December. There were other markets. And we do know that some of the patients had links to other markets. We need to do some further work, and then the Chinese colleagues need to do some further work. | 在华南市场外也有其他传播事件。还有一些病人与该市场没有关系，12月就出现了不少。还有其他的市场。我们知道有些病人与其他市场有关系。我们需要进一步的研究，然后中国同事也需要做进一步的工作。 |
| When we sat down as a group, the China team and the W.H.O. team on the last full day of work, and said, “Let’s go through the hypotheses,” the one that received the most enthusiastic support was this pathway — wildlife, through a domesticated wildlife link, into Wuhan. | 在最后一整天的工作中，当中国专家组和世卫组织专家组一起坐下来讨论说，“让我们来看看所有假设，”得到最多支持的就是这条途径——野生动物，通过其驯养的链接，进入了武汉。 |
| What is the next step? | 下一步是什么？ |
| For the animals chain, it’s straightforward. The suppliers are known. They know the farm name; they know the owner of the farm. You’ve got to go down to the farm and interview the farmer and the family. You’ve got to test them. You’ve got to test the community. You’ve got to go and look and see if there are any animals left at any farms nearby and see if they’ve got evidence of infection, and see if there is any cross-border movement. If the virus is in those southern border states, it’s possible that there’s been some movement across neighboring countries like Vietnam, Laos or Myanmar. We’re finding more and more related viruses now. There’s one in Japan and one in Cambodia, one in Thailand. | 对动物传播链而言，问题很简单。供应商是已知的。他们知道农场的名字；知道农场所有者是谁。必须到农场去采访农户及其家人。必须给他们做检测。必须给社区做检测。必须去看看附近的工厂是否还有动物留下，看看它们是否有被感染的证据，看看是否有任何跨境移动。如果病毒出现在南方边境的国家，那么越南、老挝或缅甸等邻国可能有一些移动传播。我们发现了越来越多的相关病毒传播。日本有一起，柬埔寨有一起，泰国有一起。 |
| For the human side, look for earlier cases, for clusters; look in blood banks for serum, if possible. Anything like this is going to be sensitive in China, and it’s going to take some persuasion and diplomacy and energy for them to do that because, to be honest, looking for the source of this virus within China is not a great, high priority I think for the Chinese government. Anywhere this virus is shown to emerge is a political issue. That’s one of the problems, and that is clear and obvious to anyone who has been looking at this. | 对人类而言，要寻找早期病例，寻找聚集性疫情；如果可能的话，去血库查找血清。像这样的工作在中国是敏感的，需要花费一些游说、外交手段和精力才能让他们这样做，因为老实说，我认为对中国政府而言，寻找这种病毒在国内的源头并不是个多重要的任务。不管病毒出现在哪，都会成为政治问题。这只是问题之一，对任何关注研究病毒的人来说都是显而易见的。 |
| Do you have a particular animal that you suspect right now as an intermediate link, more strongly than others? | 你现在是否有怀疑某一特定动物就是中间环节，比对其他动物的怀疑更多？ |
| It’s too up in the air. We don’t know if civets were on sale. We know they are very easily infected. We don’t know what the situation is with the mink farms in China or the other fur farms, like raccoon dogs, even though they’re normally farmed in a different part of China. That needs to be followed up on, too. | 这一点还非常不确定。我们不知道果子狸是否在出售。我们知道它们很容易被感染。我们不知道中国的水貂养殖场或其他皮毛养殖场的情况，比如貉，尽管它们通常是在中国其他地区养殖的。这一点也需要继续跟进。 |
| But if you were to say which pathway would you put the most weight on, I think the virus emerging either in Southeast Asia or Southern China from bats, getting into a domesticated wildlife farm. I’ve been to many of these, and they often have mixed species — civets, ferret badgers, raccoon dogs. Those animals would be able to get infected from bats. | 但如果要说哪种传播途径是最可能的，我认为病毒来自东南亚或华南的蝙蝠，进入了驯养野生动物的农场。我去过很多这样的农场，那里经常养有混合物种——果子狸、鼬獾和貉。这些动物都可能被蝙蝠感染。 |
| Either the people that work there get infected and bring it in, or animals are shipped in, live or recently killed, that bring the virus into a market. Once it’s in a market — either Huanan or another one in Wuhan — you’ve got a dense population of people moving through those markets. And it’s going to be a real potential for an amplification. | 要么是在那里工作的人被感染并将病毒带到那里，要么是被运来的动物（不管是活的还是刚被宰杀的）将病毒带入了市场。一旦到了市场——不管是华南海鲜市场还是其他武汉市场——那里就会有密集的人口流动，病毒才会有大规模扩散的真正可能。 |
| The new data that you saw, for instance, on the vendors and their supply chains, will that be in your full report? | 你所看到的新数据，例如关于商贩及其供应链的，是否会出现在你的完整报告中？ |
| I hope so. There’ll be some things that are going to be confidential, without a doubt. Patient records are kept highly confidential in China. We have an image in the West of China being authoritarian and they are videoing everyone. They can have access to anything. But patient records are very private, and some are not accessible. | 我希望如此。毫无疑问，有些事情是要保密的。在中国，患者病例是高度机密。我们有个印象是中国西部处在高压威权之下，所有人都是被监控拍摄的。一切都在他们的掌握中。但病例是非常私密的，其中有一些无法获取。 |
| We wanted to meet with certain patients. They didn’t want to meet, so they weren’t pushed to meet with us. There’s no reason to believe that was shenanigans. I’m hoping all the information about vendors, vendor chains will be there. But if not, we’ve seen it. We’ve got it. And we will be following up. | 我们想见见某些病人。他们不想见面，所以没人逼他们跟我们见面。没有理由相信那都是诡计。我希望能得到所有关于商贩和商贩供应链的信息。但如果得不到，我们也不意外。我们拿到了。我们会继续跟进。 |
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